Research Digest, Vol 66, Issue 16

In response to Topic 1Hello Valente;I had a similar issue when I was using the Cocula Films (The worst are Autlan). I remember seeing some marriages listed in the "Confirmations" and also they are mixed up throughout the marriage films. Good luck!Deedra Corona
> From: research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: Research Digest, Vol 66, Issue 16
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 15:06:16 -0700
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> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Marriage between Santiago Barbosa and Lorensa de Aguilar
> (sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com)
> 2. T?rmino "mulato" y "con voz de espa?ol"
> (enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com)
> 3. The Barbosa of Cocula (enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com)
> 4. Re: Dispensas (Alice Blake)
> 5. Re: T?rmino "con voz de (alejandrogg@gmail.com)
> 6. Re: Matrimonio Sanchez de (glorianoemi9@yahoo.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriage between Santiago Barbosa and
> Lorensa de Aguilar
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi, I was looking at the Cocula, Jalisco Marriages from 1740-1758, and I can't seem to find the marriage act of my ancestors Santiago Barbosa (stylized as Sntiago.) and Lorensa de Aguilar, who married on February 27, 1757 in Cocula. The records are in bad shape, and some are not clear to read. The records that I was looking at were originally recorded with the month of January (Enero) but the "E" was overwritten by an "F" which looks like "Febrero", and there is March (Marzo) is overwritten with Febrero. If someone could help me find this, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Valente.
>
> This is the link to the indexed record:
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9MJG-KWJ/p1
>
> And here is the link to the images:
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.1.i/dgs%3A004721159.004721159_00572
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
> From: enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] T?rmino "mulato" y "con voz de espa?ol"
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> Muchas gracias por sus comentarios, aprecio su opini?n acerca del tema. En el caso de mulato, como dicen algunos de ustedes, la manera de clasificar a la poblaci?n en castas no era muy precisa, por lo que cuando ya pasaban m?s de 2 generaciones de mestizaje, sol?an basarse mas bien en el f?sico de la persona que en el de su verdadero origen.
> Mi ascendencia mulata me viene por mi tatarabuela Mar?a del Rosario Aranda, a?n siendo una se?ora de tez blanca y ojos claros, gracias al estudio geneal?gico pude darme cuenta de sus origenes raciales. Una de sus bisabuelas Mar?a Antonia Benita Villegas Rodr?guez, est? asentada como espa?ola en su acta de bautismo.Si bien, por la rama paterna desciende completamente de espa?oles, pero su madre Juana Mar?a Sixta Rodr?guez Ruelas, est? como asentada como mestiza, en su acta de matrimonio. Pero resulta ser que cuando se casan los padres de Juana Mar?a, su pap? est? asentado como coyote y su mam? como tresalva. Los abuelos paternos cuando se casan, uno viene asentado como mulato libre y la abuela como loba. Los abuelos maternos Jos? Mar?a Ruelas Garc?a, viene asentado como mestizo, pero en realidad ser?a el perfecto mulato ya que su pap? Domingo Ruelas Arreola, era espa?ol y su mam? Juana Mar?a Garc?a Gonz?lez, era una mulata libre.
> ?Alguien de ustedes sabe como se ganaba la condici?n de ser libre para un mulato?
>
> Por lo de "voz de espa?ol", concuerdo con la idea que debi? haber sido que la gente criolla o espa?ola debi? haber tenido en aquel tiempo a?n la pronunciaci?n de la pen?nsula ib?rica, pero en el caso en que se inclu?a ese t?rmino en una acta eclesi?stica era quiz? por el hecho de que tal persona "parec?a" o ten?a apariencia de espa?ol pero no hab?a manera de comprobarlo.
>
> Saludos
> Enrique Salvador Agraz.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Barbosa of Cocula
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi Valente:
>
> I also descend from the Barbosa family of Cocula. I don't know if all Barbosa of Cocula were relatives but my farthest ancestors I've found is Clemente Barbosa, married with Br?gida N??ez, they might have married before May 1743, when the oldest child that I've found from them was baptized in Cocula. I searched in a good range of years before that date, the information of their marriage, but I couldn't find it. I have the custom of writing down possible relatives with the same family name registered in the same church but I don't have your ancestors' names in my notes but continue searching, maybe I missed that couple marriage or possibly they were married after the date I began my search that was May 1743.
>
> Regards
> Salvador Agraz
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 21:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alice Blake
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> Message-ID:
> <1310875946.48855.YahooMailClassic@web180601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Armando,? Thanks so much for the explanation.? I can see where knowing what cities and towns were under Guadalajara's?diocese at different points in time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it.? I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area the diocese emcompassed?throughout its history.??I thought that one point?even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be wrong.? Again thank you for your help.?? Alice?
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Capellan?as are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
> them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
> a good explanation in Spanish at
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
> Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
> becoming a priest.
> A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
> found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
> http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
> I would find this info.
>
> For some reason the earlier link for the Di?cesis de Guadalajara link had
> added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Wow Armando.? This is all new information for me.? I went to the Diocesis
> > of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation
> > says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.? Not sure what capellanias refer
> > to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> > refer to holy orders or ordination?
> > Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> > Guadalajara diocesis?? In other words, when other diocesis were carved out
> > of there.? That would be really useful.? Thanks so much.???Alice
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Armando
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice, the informaci?n matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> > was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> > because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> > parents unlike the matrimonios and the informaci?n matrimonial. A majority
> > of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> > under Di?cesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> > permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> > Guadalajara.
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
> >
>
>
> >
> > There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> > reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Patty.? So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> > required
> > > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.? So when I
> > > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> > > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.? All this time, I thought
> > > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.? Thanks
> > so
> > > much,? Alice
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: patty haro
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> > allow
> > > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> > normally
> > > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> > > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> > >
> > > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> > the
> > > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> > > for
> > > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> > matrimonial.
> > >
> > > I hope this help you
> > >
> > > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > > cuando
> > > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> > limosna
> > > de por medio.
> > >
> > > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> > info
> > > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > > matrimonial?? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> > totally
> > > > worth it.? Thanks so much.
> > > > Alice
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