General Digest, Vol 49, Issue 8

Hello

Yes we are talking about the founding Altenos (non meso americans) of that region as a majority were Western Europeans paternally. As the main topic claims that they were jewish, I am proving as a descendant of one of the settlers and having taking a DNA test that my return was one of the R1b Celtic subclades.  Yes there are many different subclades down from R1b, however again restating, the Casillas from Martin Casillas was determined by Nordvert's haplogroup predictor to be Frisian, which is also a designator of Celtic-p language, a second Celtic invasionary group into England, designated by their version of the language.  My marker was first identified by Oxford University as the Oesin tribe line prior to National Geographic or Familytreedna testing.  So knowing that my family was one of the original Altenos to whom Martin Casillas was given a part of Jalos now known as el Valle de Guadalupe and his people were sent to pacify the land from the
native tribes, I feel confident in saying that the majority of original colonist of this area were of R1b and specifically the land given to was R1b1b2 subclade Frisian Celts-p.

Of the original back bone familes from los Altos, namely Barba, Cabrera, Casillas, Hermosillo to say the least they have returned R1b with their respective subclades, Altantic to other R1b Germanic groups.  As posted on www.ysearch.org feel free to check them out... To me it's no coincidence that these like descendants were working together.

(I saw the King Tut special, and read the early forums, potentially R1b, I calculated y group L but I didn't see the twin peak returns which indicate R1b, we shall see what Dr.Hawas finally reveals, very political to say the least). 

As we know R1b and their respective subclade is present in about 50% of all Europeans today.  Up to 68% Males from Jalisco and Chihuaha seem to be returning same purportional European heritage (I'll have get a break down of y haplos).  Zacatecas and Northern Mexicans more substantial middle eastern/medittereanean returns. 

Here is one such study about mexican dna.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161845?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

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Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 3:03:35 PM
Subject: General Digest, Vol 49, Issue 8

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DAILY DIGEST
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Today's Topics:

  1. More R1b1b2 Altenos (actapatio2007@yahoo.com)
  2. R1b and Altenos ? (gandalf3.1@netzero.com)
  3. Re: R1b and Altenos ? (Emilie Garcia)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:48:46 -0800 (PST)
From: actapatio2007@yahoo.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] More R1b1b2 Altenos
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hello

Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic...

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800 (PST)
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

"Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."

With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.

First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that
is).  Altenos of Europe
an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.

One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.

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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:00:46 -0800
From: Emilie Garcia
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My husband, who is descended from Altenos (the Albas, Cervantes, Ruis de Esparza, Rubalcabas, etc.) has no illusions about his ancestry either in Mexico or going back to Spain.

He just showed me this paragraph from one of his books about the admixture of cultures in Spain over the centuries:    "Christian families with more pedigree than cash, or with a prudent respect for ability, accepted them [Jews] in marriage..  In this way the Spanish people, especially the upper classes, received a substantial infusion of Jewish blood.  Ferdinand the Catholic and Torquemada the Inquisitor had Jews in their ancestry.  Pope Paul IV, at war with Phillip II, called him and the Spanish the "worthless seed of the Jews and Moors". 

I know that the rest of Europe looked askance at Spaniards and Portuguese as not being Europeans.  Wasn't there a dust-up about allowing them into the EU? 

So, it seems to me that the Spaniards are as mongrel a race as mestizos are now considered, and they always were.  I totally agree with this poster's statement "we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it".  Neither Spaniards in the Old World or the New World were pure anything.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
>
> "Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
> also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."
>
> With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.
>
> First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that
is). Altenos of Europ
e
> an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.
>
> One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.
>